normal and displacement maps?

Quote from shanwugogo

Can someone teach me how to use Normail Map in Enscape????

How many map I use??

Where is the Normail Map Button??

It's not advertised at all, but when you use a normal map in the bump map texture slot in Sketchup (through the Enscape material editor), it correctly identifies it as a normal map and you'll see the name change from bump map to normal map. For Revit, I believe it's the same process (inputting the normal into the bump map slot), though obviously Revit has it's own built in material editor.

Quote from shanwugogo

Can someone teach me how to use Normail Map in Enscape????

How many map I use??

Where is the Normail Map Button??

In order to tell Enscape that it is a normal map and not just a bump map, add an _n at the end of image name.

Quote from jnurnberger

In order to tell Enscape that it is a normal map and not just a bump map, add an _n at the end of image name.

That is new info - But Normal maps are quite different than a Bump map. The main difference is Normal maps provide more data due to the RGB values. Bump maps are black to white base date. A quick google search will tell you more.

However, the "_n" is a bit interesting as some normal maps that I have created using Substance don't away resister. Enscape doesn't have a "normal map slot" its "auto" detected in the bump slot so if the "_n" actual work I would be very surprise as none of the Enscape Devs have shared this after a number of troubleshooting post i have made in the past.

You assign the normal map (the one with the RGB values) in the bump map location with the _n in the file name to tell Enscape to read it as a normal map. The _n doesn't change bump maps to normal maps though to clarify.

Quote from Clemens Musterle

Yes, we do have plans to support both for the material editor. Right now normal maps are only supported for the new Revit 2019 materials.

However if you've got normal maps for your material right now, you might want to rename them with an _n at the end of the filename (e.g. myfile_n.png). Enscape will pick that up and interpret it as a normal map

Hope that helps

This quote is the second post in this thread.

Hi! I have compared two types (normal and bump) and BUMP map looks more natural. So there no reason to make it normal map. BUT it is mutch more attractive to have real geometry (displace map) for realistic render!!! Is there a plan to work on it?

Quote from Herbo

well, that is not true It completely depends on the quality of the maps. a bad normal map will look worse than a good bump map. but the normal map has the POTENTIAL to be a lot better.

its a bit like a small keyboard vs. a grand piano: they will both sound bad if you dont know how to play, but IF you can play, there is a lot more notes on the grand piano

Agreed! - Love the piano analogy.

Abu Download Substance and get it a go. You will find that in Enscape quality textures will have a massive impact on your renders.

Thanks for answer! What do you mean "Download Substance"?

Quote from Abu

Thanks for answer! What do you mean "Download Substance"?

Substance is a material creation tool.

Their platform Alchemist is great for converting Bitmaps into PBR materials.

https://www.substance3d.com/products/substance-alchemist/

He-he! I show an example; 1 is normal map 2 is height map. As U see heightmap (bumpmap) give a better result.

And now, jtubb, please...

after U pay moneyfor wonder Alchemist, show me normal map example rendered in ENSCAPE that is better then height map

and I will love that nice piano analogy as U

height map and normal map I useed

I guess I can shed some light on this issue:

First of all, what you're comparing here isn't entirely the same, as the normalmap contains much more noisy detail compared to the height map. However that's not a shortcoming of the normal mapping technique, but rather depends on how the normal map was generated. In this case I suppose it was created simply based on the albedo map, which sometimes works out, but often results in quite noisy shading.

However what's actually wrong with this normalmap in particular is, that it doesn't match the normalmap standard Enscape uses and therefore the shading is off, please compare the images below between heightmap and normalmap and see the shadow above for reference:

This is just a convention thing and in this case can easily be fixed by inverting the green channel of the normalmap. This will then result in correct shading, that aligns with the geometric shadows (but of course will not fix the noisy micro detail in it):

Please beware of that, when using precalculated normal maps and check if the shading actually matches the light position/shadow direction. Enscape uses the OpenGL normalmap convention. Here's some explanation on that.

Hope that helps

Thanks Clemens- it helps me to understand problem and make me sure I was right. Bump map have not this problem and additional have ajastment of amount. So for me it is clear what to use. May be in future of enscape there will be a reason to use normal map, who knows.

PS @jtubb now U can take a note about Alchemist normal map and correct your advice=). And my analogy for You know who: When play a piano use left hand instead right to get correct melody =)

Alchemist normal map is Wrong as U see

I had no idea this was a thing... but had corrected my substance normals after noticing things looked wrong when using them.

Quote from Abu

PS @jtubb now U can take a note about Alchemist normal map and correct your advice=). And my analogy for You know who: When play a piano use left hand instead right to get correct melody =)

I still recommend substance - best tool i have used for producing PBD materials.

+1 for normal and/or displacement map support.

In the meantime, I saw some talk earlier in the thread of adding a "_n" suffix.
Does this work in sketchup? in Rhino? And where is that suffix containing normal map added, to the bump slot?

thx!

Quote from SkipFifth

+1 for normal and/or displacement map support.

In the meantime, I saw some talk earlier in the thread of adding a "_n" suffix.
Does this work in sketchup? in Rhino? And where is that suffix containing normal map added, to the bump slot?

thx!

That is new info to me. So far is you input a properly generated normal map it should work fine. I have only have a couple occasions where it didn't work.

Quote from SkipFifth

+1 for normal and/or displacement map support.

In the meantime, I saw some talk earlier in the thread of adding a "_n" suffix.
Does this work in sketchup? in Rhino? And where is that suffix containing normal map added, to the bump slot?

thx!

the _n suffix is basically a legacy feature, which was required back when we didn't have our own material editor and no automatic normal map detection. So as long as you're working with a plugin with a dedicated Enscape material editor this is no longer relevant and will be ignored (so this applies only for legacy Revit versions that didn't support normalmaps at all).

Quote from Clemens Musterle

This is just a convention thing and in this case can easily be fixed by inverting the green channel of the normalmap

This might be a handy feature to have inside of the material editor?