Walkthrough stuttering Issues 3.0

    Quote from Vanderz

    Wow thats impressive! Is there any loss in the visuals?

    Not really that I could tell, but then again, my monitor is only 3440x1440 and not 4K to do a side by side comparison... having said that, with any compression for video or images, like JPEG, there is always some kind of loss in quality... I did not notice much difference in the two videos so far, but there could be... also, you can always try different settings on the encoder to achieve results better suited to your needs. I for one liked the smaller file size at the 120 FPS so that, if need be, I could play the file on a not so high end computer hooked up to a nice 4K monitor and have it play several videos on a shuffle playlist...


    Back to the issue of the Enscape videos stuttering/skipping frames... I think it is only a matter of either adjusting the codec settings for the MP4 container and/or the video stream inside the mp4 container. (Each stream inside a video file can have their own codec... MP4, AAC, MP3, HEVC, etc, etc, etc, etc).

    Quote from Vanderz

    Some more observations i have noticed..

    When using VLC player on battery mode on my RTX laptop the 4K video was choppy again... i also dowloaded VLC to my surface pro and again the 4k video was choppy... while the 1440p version worked fine though... does Enscape have a video player they recommend for playback?

    Did you try converting the Enscape video file with a video converter and then playing the converted video file on the desktop and laptops? Any differences when playing the converted videos?

    Quote from Vanderz

    no i havent yet but i may try this over the weekend. Was the software you used free or paid?

    Depending on what you are comfortable with and your needs:


    I used Vidcoder (free).


    other software (paid):

    • Wondershare Video Converter (I have this one as well)
    • Nero Suite (Have this one too)
    • Movavi Video Converter

    More Free and Paid:


    https://www.videohelp.com/soft…s/video-encoders-h264-vc1


    Video editors:

    • Da Vinci Resolve (Free) and high quality, large install though, complex and powerfull
    • Magix Movie Edit Pro Plus (I don't like their encoder for MP4 and previously required separate activation, not sure on recent versions)
      • Their Pro Video Editor is similar...
    • WonderShare has two video editors, one is for personal use, and the other is a pro version for commercial projects (Have both)

    For anyone wondering what the bug looks like when using the Walk Mode, it is similar (though not the same, as the test UOF at 25fps is only displaying less frames, whereas the Walk Mode in Enscape the camera or the buildings are shaking) to the 25fps screen refresh test image at this website Test UFO:


    https://www.testufo.com/


    This website is very useful when having people test if they can tell if the monitors they are using are 60Hz (standard) or higher refresh rate such as 75Hz, 90Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, 144Hz, 240Hz, 360Hz...

    ive seen some stuttering on playback but (in my opinion) it’s not anything to do with Enscape, it’s purely the capacity of the machine it’s being played on, I’d expect that any video rendered from Enscape would then go on the be edited in the likes of Davinci Resolve,

    This is 20 or more 10-12sec videos that I stitched together in Resolve, from the one Resolve project I export a 1080 with music, a 720 without (used in my pano tours) and a 800x800 short with music for social media.


    Quote from Paul Russam

    ive seen some stuttering on playback but (in my opinion) it’s not anything to do with Enscape, it’s purely the capacity of the machine it’s being played on, I’d expect that any video rendered from Enscape would then go on the be edited in the likes of Davinci Resolve,

    This is 20 or more 10-12sec videos that I stitched together in Resolve, from the one Resolve project I export a 1080 with music, a 720 without (used in my pano tours) and a 800x800 short with music for social media.

    Valid point, but there are a few posts in these forums about playback issues of the MP4s produced by Enscape and mostly it has been suggested to use VLC player as a workaround... did you see the post where I added info on what codec the Enscape videos are outputted with?? Any comments on that? Have you tested 4K @120 fps Enscape videos? The more input we have, the better...


    EDIT: Adding that, the stuttering is in the Enscape Window while real-time rendering is happening, not just in exported videos... but related enough I guess.

    For testing if an MP4 video file is standard/compliant/compatible... drag it to Chrome and see if it plays...


    • The MP4 file from Enscape I tested with 4k @120 fps initially for this thread:
      • Did NOT not play in Chrome
      • Played with choppy playback/skipped frames in Vivaldi browser same as in Windows Media Player/Movies and TV app
      • Note: The file I converted with Vidcoder played no problems in Chrome (source was the Enscape mp4)
        • Compliant / standard codec and codec id (more compatible encoder/encoding settings)
      • Other compliant mp4 files played in Chrome no problems

    In short, compliant files should play in Windows and Chrome no problems, files that are not (for any of a large multitude of reasons and variables) will have problems playing or will not play at all...


    Can you guys test (anybody reading this post) if files exported directly from Enscape (not converted/transcoded) can play in Chrome or not? That would be an indication of what is happening with the exported videos from Enscape... Files from Escape both 2.9 and 3.0...


    References (just to get started with the many complexities with video encoding, let alone playback...):

    I was just testing something with SketchUp models imported from the 3D Warehouse... and related to Real Time Rendering and Walk Mode / Fly Mode...


    Can anyone test loading the following models from the 3D Warehouse (to have the same reference models):

    • Spartak Stadium by Vlad Kissel
      • Fly mode skips frames when flying around the model, toward the stadium structure and inside of it
    • MATERIAL_Enscape by Lasino L.
      • Walking around definitely and without a doubt makes all objects jitter around.... very noticeable
        • Note that the Enscape Materials are also not all accurate, some vegetation does not show correctly (as mentioned in other forum posts)

    Updated to nVidia Drivers latest (461.72):

    • there is less jumping/jittering on the MATERIAL_Enscape model...
      • When sizing the window like a slightly tall rectangle (take a square window make it a bit tall) the jittering is very obvious
      • Make the window very wide and short and there is less noticeable jittering/jumping around...
    • Almost no frame skipping/hiccups with the Spartak model.
    Quote from Vanderz

    When using VLC player on battery mode on my RTX laptop the 4K video was choppy again... i also dowloaded VLC to my surface pro and again the 4k video was choppy... while the 1440p version worked fine though... does Enscape have a video player they recommend for playback?

    I suspect that your laptop is switching between the discrete GPU and the onboard graphics for low power mode. The onboard graphics for low power mode is not sufficient to play 4K video.

    You can change the setting to stop the switch in low power mode between discrete GPU and onboard graphics in the graphic card settings to always prefer maximum performance (or similar) or to always use your discrete graphic card. Keep in mind that this will also increase battery consumption.

    As a reference to why I think Enscape3D's MP4 videos may not be playing well in Windows without using VLC is the Codec ID of the container file and/or the Video Stream:


    The MediaInfo application/software has a list of "known" codecs/codec IDs... and "isom", "iso2" were not on the list (used a text editor's find/search function), but "mp41" was, so again, I think it is the codec ID/container. The Video Stream Codec inside the Enscape MP4 file for 4k @ 120fps was "mp4v-20". It is possible, and have not researched this fully, but is it possible the European editions of Windows have a different set of Built-In codecs that play fine and the US version(s) of Windows have a different set of Built-in codecs? hence why some users have no problems playing the files and some do?




    Here is a partial list of "known" codecs by the MediaInfo App (made the ones found for the Enscape MP4 file in BOLD and Green):

    Note: the list was too long to post, but if you want to see it, super long list, download the MediaInfo app...


    MNVD;MindVid;4CC;V;;;MindBend MindVid LossLess

    MP2A;MPEG-2 Audio;4CC;A;MPEG-A;;Media Excel MPEG-2 Audio

    MP2T;MPEG-2 TS;4CC;M;MPEG-TS;;Media Excel MPEG-2 Transport Stream

    MP2V;MPEG-2 Video;4CC;V;MPEG-V;;Media Excel MPEG-2 Video;http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

    MP2v;MPEG-2 Video;4CC;V;MPEG-V;;MPEG-2 Video;http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

    MP41;S-Mpeg 4 v1;4CC;V;;;Microsoft MPEG-4 V1 (enhansed H263);http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

    MP42;S-Mpeg 4 v2;4CC;V;;;Microsoft MPEG-4 V2;http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html

    MP43;S-Mpeg 4 v3;4CC;V;;;Microsoft MPEG-4 V3

    MP4A;MPEG-4 Audio;4CC;A;AAC;;Media Excel MPEG-4 Audio;http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html

    MP4S;MS MPEG-4 v3;4CC;V;MPEG-4V;;Microsoft MPEG-4 (Windows Media 7.0)

    MP4T;MPEG-4 TS;4CC;M;MPEG-TS;;Media Excel MPEG-4 Transport Stream;http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html

    MP4V;MPEG-4 Video;4CC;V;MPEG-4V;;Apple QuickTime MPEG-4 native;http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

    MPEG;MPEG;4CC;V;MPEG-V;;Chromatic MPEG 1 Video I Frame;http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

    MPEG-1A;MPEG-1 Audio;MediaInfo;A;MPEG-A;

    MPEG-1A L1;MPEG-1 Audio Layer 1;MediaInfo;A;MPEG-A;

    MPEG-1A L2;MPEG-1 Audio Layer 2;MediaInfo;A;MPEG-A;

    ......

    Wow this is all great info and thank you so

    much for taken the time to investigate it all.. but i dont really understand it.


    I think its got to the point where Enscape themselves need to add some input here. I pay to use the software... not to fix it...


    What really needs to happen is Enscape adds Codecs to the program or list them for down on their website... possibly for different regions of the world if your earlier assumption is correct

    I think the fix would be, for what I gather, to have Enscape export the MP4 with the correct/most-compatible codec/settings... that way no extra codecs needed or another player like VLC...

    Quote from ASxJ2099

    I think the fix would be, for what I gather, to have Enscape export the MP4 with the correct/most-compatible codec/settings... that way no extra codecs needed or another player like VLC...

    We're already making use of a rather popular codec, and I myself experienced plenty of events where windows media player just wasn't up to the task (not just in combination with videos created through Enscape) - either because of missing codecs or because the video stuttered because of performance problems which I never experienced with VLC (probably due to lacking hardware acceleration in WMP). So summed up I'd say it's always better to not use windows media player, or at least acquire a codec pack which should also do the trick when Enscape videos cannot be played at all.

    Quote from Demian Gutberlet

    We're already making use of a rather popular codec, and I myself experienced plenty of events where windows media player just wasn't up to the task (not just in combination with videos created through Enscape) - either because of missing codecs or because the video stuttered because of performance problems which I never experienced with VLC (probably due to lacking hardware acceleration in WMP). So summed up I'd say it's always better to not use windows media player, or at least acquire a codec pack which should also do the trick when Enscape videos cannot be played at all.

    No problems there... but is this information listed anywhere on the Enscape website?


    I thought all media players were the same, they just play mp4s... im guessing im not the only one that just expects a product i pay a subscription for... to just work on my computer.


    Keep in mind, when this thread started i thought it was a problem with Enscape itself......

    Quote from Demian Gutberlet

    We're already making use of a rather popular codec, and I myself experienced plenty of events where windows media player just wasn't up to the task (not just in combination with videos created through Enscape) - either because of missing codecs or because the video stuttered because of performance problems which I never experienced with VLC (probably due to lacking hardware acceleration in WMP). So summed up I'd say it's always better to not use windows media player, or at least acquire a codec pack which should also do the trick when Enscape videos cannot be played at all.

    Well, correct, the "creation tool" shows as LAVC... which there is a codec pack with similar name (is it related, from the same team?) and I do believe the format that is being used by Enscape "attempts" to be compatible/accessible/standard... which is great... that is not being put in doubt... I am saying, per my previous posts, that I found the "codec ID" of the container file may not be interpreted correctly by Windows Media Player... hence, the frame skipping/stuttering reports...


    Now... There is an option when installing some codec packs to show a tray icon when the installed, 3rd party codec, is being used to decode/play an mp4 file, or any other video file, when there is a supported video file being "decoded" or "played"... I tried using that when playing the MP4 file from Enscape... and the icon did not show up... note that I have used that option in the past when testing mp4 files from other applications... Is not some secret, it is a feature and a very helpful one.


    So, again, I go back to the findings for my test of MP4 files made with Enscape 3.0... I did not try with mp4 files from Enscape 2.8 or 2.9 since I had an older Core i7 6500 PC until recently... and now that I have a brand new spiffy AMD 5900x with 64GB RAM and a GTX 3090... the video from Enscape skipping frames was a sing of the media player not knowing how to properly play the file... be it buffering, intermediate frames, vector, etc, etc, etc, gazillion options or hardware decoding... cause... you know... each MP4 file, and every mp4 file, comes with presumably the correct container Codec ID, and each stream inside of the MP4 container file also comes with its own codec ID so the media player can decide how to play back the file...


    Point is, can the Dev team check on this? Otherwise, for every Enscape Video I export I will have to re-encode it for distribution and playback so that end-users don't have to go through downloads, codecs, and what not that may influence how they perceive the end product??


    Expanding on the Windows codecs, there are N and KN versions of windows that come with some features stripped out... I'll let you guys do the research and let us know what you find....


    So has the Enscape team (devs, help desk, other parts of the team), tried playing those files on PCs with Fresh Installs of Windows 10... without extra codecs, then try with Codecs... if the result is the same... then you may start to notice some of what some of us have reported seeing when playing MP4 files created with Enscape... Is there a difference on the Windows versions used by the Enscape Dev Team or other teams that are not the developers that make them different from the versions of Windows we end users have? There are several Windows Versions/Editions: LTSC, LTSB, EDU, N, KN, Home, Pro, etc...


    Now, please, try to re-encode the same file with Vidcoder with the settings I posted (so we all work on the same set of test settings, for example), but at the same resolution of the source MP4 file... let us know what you find... when playing the file on a fresh Windows 10 install without 3rd party codec packs or filters, and without VLC.... and then try with a codec pack and activate the tray icon when the filters/codec pack are actively being used to play the mp4 file that was properly identified (correct Codec ID) and the tray icon shows up...


    I know this is a long post... but rendering videos can be a very time consuming task... and some people may be more pressed on time/resources and may not have time to re-encode videos to make them more compatible/VLC/Codec-pack free...


    I did media encoding and digital signage for work for a few years... like a decade ago... it can be real fun to have to deal with codecs and custom media players... There's always tons of variables involved with video/multimedia... it is just the nature of the beast. It is what it is.