Enscape load times with hidden geometry / meshes

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  • We have a large auditorium project in Rhino. There is a ton of detailed geometry (seating, stage lighting, etc.) as well as design iterations on various layers. This has been handed off between a number of users and is far from an efficient model. The time for Enscape to load w/textures + lighting is around 20 minutes.


    I had always assumed that Enscape only processes the visible geometry, but found that by -deleting- the hidden elements (cutting the size of the model roughly in half) the Enscape load time gets cut in half as well. (In retrospect this makes sense, as Enscape always seems quick to update when turning layers on/off.) This got me thinking - can the Enscape team clarify how hidden geometry is taken into account with the various host programs? We of course tell our users to turn off unneeded elements to speed up performance, but if Enscape processes the entire model anyway, then that really doesn't make much difference.


    Rhino - It appears that hidden layers are processed.

    - Are linked Blocks (not embedded) on hidden layers processed?

    - Does mesh geometry process faster than smooth/parametric geometry? ie, would pre-meshing everything speed up the Enscape calculations?


    Sketchup -

    - Are hidden tags/layers processed? Are "hidden" objects processed?


    Revit -

    - I'm pretty sure a Section Box is effective at preventing geometry outside the box from being calculated, but perhaps Enscape team can confirm?

    - Are hidden model categories calculated? We tell our users to turn off plumbing, pipes, etc for rendering purposes, but based on what I found with Rhino now I am wondering if that even matters?


    I plan to do more testing w/large models and various scenarios but wanted to see if I can get any more info here.

    • Official Post

    Clemens Musterle - somewhat related to the Revit smoothing thread - any insight on this?

    I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the different CAD integrations in particular. I know that some work was invested in overhauling the Rhino export for the latest version - not sure there's a benefit in this case though. I'll refer our CAD integration experts to your post though ;)

  • Hey there rifkin, there are multiple parts and stages of processing.
    We generally export geometry, materials (+textures) and other things like asset tagged objects from the CADs. It highly depends on the host system and the API that we use on how we can or have to do this.

    Next we pass that data on to the Enscape Renderer where further processing happens, e.g. geometry is converted into other formats.


    All Hosts:

    - Invisible geometry is not processed by the Renderer.

    - Unused materials are not processed by the Renderer.


    SketchUp:

    - All geometry is exported.

    - All materials are exported.


    Revit:

    - Only visible (and inside of a section box) geometry is exported.

    - Only used materials are exported.


    Vectorworks:

    - Only visible geometry and layers are exported.

    - Only used materials are exported.


    Archicad:

    - Only visible geometry and layers are exported.

    - Only used materials are exported.


    Rhino Enscape 3.4.3:

    - All geometry is exported.

    - All materials are exported.

    - It takes time to generate the mesh for our export so pre-meshing might have an impact but we haven't tested that specifically.


    Rhino 7 Enscape Latest Preview (reimplementation of the export using the Change Queue API):

    - Only visible (and enabled) geometry and layers are exported.

    - Only used materials are exported.

    - Likely behaves differently than the old API for pre-meshing.

    I hope that answers most of your questions.

  • Thanks much for the thorough response. Very helpful, but can you comment any more on the difference between "processed" and "exported?" Would it be fair to broadly associate "meshing" with exporting and "lighting" with processing?


    All Hosts - Invisible geometry is not processed

    vs

    SketchUp/Rhino Enscape 3.4.3 - All geometry is exported.

  • Thanks much for the thorough response. Very helpful, but can you comment any more on the difference between "processed" and "exported?" Would it be fair to broadly associate "meshing" with exporting and "lighting" with processing?


    All Hosts - Invisible geometry is not processed

    vs

    SketchUp/Rhino Enscape 3.4.3 - All geometry is exported.


    What I called "export" is everything that we have to do with the host system.
    We export the object hierarchies, transforms, visibility (if applicable), geometry, materials and more from the host system. We store that information in a data structure which enables us to detect changes to enable the live updates.
    Then all of this is sent to the renderer where the "processing" happens. I'm not sure of what exactly happens here, that would be more for Clemens to answer. Basically the geometry, materials and everything is parsed into various caches and data formats to enable rendering.

  • Julian Hangstoerfer I just wanted to say thank you for the thoughtful response.


    This type of information is the main reason why I check the forums. I believe it helps everyone if users understand what is happening under the hood.


    Some users may actually have the choice between CAD packages and based on this info I could see for a particularly intensive project this information could make the difference between finishing by 5pm or 10pm.