3.5 is extremely unstable and very difficult to use

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    • Official Post

    Demian Gutberlet I need to confirm if there will be no further updates and the issues that still persist will continue to persist? Have tried the software again and its incredibly slow. cant even open the file. 3.4.4 opens it so much faster. Same issues with material updating from version 3 to 4. Same issues with layer on and off

    If you have already tried updating to the latest service pack (3.5.6) and still experience issues please be so kind as to also submit us that requested feedback report including logs via your machine where this persists. Afterward we'll investigate further and will also get back to you again accordingly. Thank you in advance and let me know ideally as well once submitted.

    • Official Post

    Have downgraded to 3.4.4 already. will send it the next time i have time to mess around.

    There is no need to re-update to the recent service pack then, we will still receive all the generated log files from 3.5.5/3.5.6 so your cooperation would still be appreciated.

    • Official Post

    Hey there,


    I know this has been annoying to all of you but 2 things:


    1. Please give the latest Rhino and latest Enscape version a try, we had to work on both sides Enscape and McNeal,
    to improve some of these issues and we did ship the improvements with the last update


    2. If your issues still persist we need your projects and logs or we cannot fix the issue for your particular case.
    I know it seems like a hassle but that is the only way. I know you all need to get your own stuff done but in this case, you have to help us fix this for you and without the specific data and clear descriptions of what actions you perform it is nigh impossible to do a precise root cause analysis and fix everything.

  • 1. Please give the latest Rhino and latest Enscape version a try, we had to work on both sides Enscape and McNeal,

    to improve some of these issues and we did ship the improvements with the last update


    2. If your issues still persist we need your projects and logs or we cannot fix the issue for your particular case.

    I have done all these things. No improvements in the latest updates. I sent an example file and tons of logs. This is easily replicable, and I would be happy to jump on a call if needed to walk through it or see things first-hand.


    Phil Read opened the ticket originally on Nov 10 - 173514

    It is a large file, but all worked fine in 3.4.4

    • Official Post

    I have done all these things. No improvements in the latest updates. I sent an example file and tons of logs. This is easily replicable, and I would be happy to jump on a call if needed to walk through it or see things first-hand.


    Phil Read opened the ticket originally on Nov 10 - 173514

    It is a large file, but all worked fine in 3.4.4

    Case is logged in our system but the team is waiting for your logs apparently.

  • Case is logged in our system but the team is waiting for your logs apparently.

    Emails received from log submissions: If you would like me to zip them all and upload I can do that instead.


    Your request (180647) has been updated.

    Zahari Ivanov (Enscape)

    Nov 29, 2023, 12:34 PM GMT+2

    This request was closed and merged into request #173514 "Revit 2024 + Rhino + Enscape".


    Your request (180650) has been updated.

    Zahari Ivanov (Enscape)

    Nov 29, 2023, 12:34 PM GMT+2

    This request was closed and merged into request #173514 "Revit 2024 + Rhino + Enscape".


    Your request (180651) has been updated.

    Zahari Ivanov (Enscape)

    Nov 29, 2023, 12:34 PM GMT+2

    This request was closed and merged into request #173514 "Revit 2024 + Rhino + Enscape".

    • Official Post

    Sure feel free to PM me a link to your project and add the logs I can open up a ticket.

    • Official Post

    rifkin so we ran an analysis internally and here are the results:


    - Our fixes are in effect in the latest version and there is a definitive performance boost

    - There are parts of the Rhino API that we already reported to McNeal that create this particular problem, it's due to an unintended Idle state that causes what you and the others in this thread are seeing. That issue was not fixed even in the latest Rhino 7 or 8 version unfortunately. A member of our team will reach out to our contact at McNeal again to bump this for subsequent Rhino 8 releases.


    By the time we are ready to release a preview with Rhino 8 support it might be fixed or at the very least there is hope that McNeal fixes the issue in time for our next full release (fingers crossed).


    I will not sugar coat it, I cannot provide you anything other than an apology for the issues you are facing. We fixed a bunch of things but this is something that must be fixed on the Rhino-side before we will see improvements and as the fix did not make it into Rhino 7 there is nothing that can be done until it has been shipped and we add Rhino 8 support.

  • "- There are parts of the Rhino API that we already reported to McNeal that create this particular problem, it's due to an unintended Idle state that causes what you and the others in this thread are seeing. That issue was not fixed even in the latest Rhino 7 or 8 version unfortunately. A member of our team will reach out to our contact at McNeal again to bump this for subsequent Rhino 8 releases."


    Yet 3.4 works just fine. Why wouldn't 3.4 be experiencing similar issues if the Rhino API is to blame? Just asking the obvious question.

    • Official Post

    "- There are parts of the Rhino API that we already reported to McNeal that create this particular problem, it's due to an unintended Idle state that causes what you and the others in this thread are seeing. That issue was not fixed even in the latest Rhino 7 or 8 version unfortunately. A member of our team will reach out to our contact at McNeal again to bump this for subsequent Rhino 8 releases."


    Yet 3.4 works just fine. Why wouldn't 3.4 be experiencing similar issues if the Rhino API is to blame? Just asking the obvious question.

    Because we started using the newer API after that version going through the Rhino change queue which gives us more means to support Rhino better. Improved diff updates and more basically.

  • 1 - Our fixes are in effect in the latest version and there is a definitive performance boost

    2 - That issue was not fixed even in the latest Rhino 7 or 8 version unfortunately.

    3 - By the time we are ready to release a preview with Rhino 8 support it might be fixed... (fingers crossed).

    I think this is muddying the waters even further....


    1 - When you say latest version, are you talking about 3.5.6? Or an unreleased internal version?

    2 - This seems to be in conflict with #1 - if the issue is not fixed in Rhino 7 or 8, how can the fixes be "in effect in the latest version?"

    3 - "Might" be fixed with fingers crossed....? So even with Enscape 4.0 you are still reliant on McNeel fixing something on their end before it works?

    • Official Post

    I think this is muddying the waters even further....


    1 - When you say latest version, are you talking about 3.5.6? Or an unreleased internal version?

    2 - This seems to be in conflict with #1 - if the issue is not fixed in Rhino 7 or 8, how can the fixes be "in effect in the latest version?"

    3 - "Might" be fixed with fingers crossed....? So even with Enscape 4.0 you are still reliant on McNeel fixing something on their end before it works?

    There is no muddying the water just a good faith attempt at transparency.


    1 & 2 - 3.5.6, there are several performance improvements there, they just don't address your particular issue. We had other reports of performance issues that were in fact addressed there.


    3 - I made it a habit not to promise something that is outside my control. I cannot guarantee you that McNeel will be fixing something. And as state before this issue cannot be fixed by ourselves it's an issue within the API/workings of Rhino when using the change queue part of the API. Returning to the 3.4 way of exporting geometry is out of the question so it is a "fingers crossed" kind of sitaution.

  • Returning to the 3.4 way of exporting geometry is out of the question

    Out of the question from development time? Or out of the question as a matter of pride?


    As many have repeated here - 3.4 worked. 3.5 is broken and unusable. Rhino had nothing to do with that.

    Has anything significant changed under the hood on Rhino's side from v7 to v8?


    It should not be out of the question to provide some sort of working solution to customers. If that means sucking it up and taking a few weeks development time to create a patched 3.4 version for Rhino 8, maybe that is something to consider. Maybe it won't be built on the latest and greatest Enscape, but at least it would let people use Rhino 8.

  • Hi Christian Radowski  Demian Gutberlet

    I dont want to surgarcoat it and just want some answers


    1. Is there any effort on Enscape/chaos's part to fix the issues on Rhino 7?

    1.1 If the onus is completely on the part of the Rhino team, is there an ETA?


    2. If Rhino chooses not to implement an update/ fix, as it is not really their 'error' per se, are we right to understand that 3.4.4 will be the last 'stable' release for enscape for Rhino 7?


    3. Right now, only one version of enscape can be installed at 1 time. Revit works well with the latest 3.5.x version meanwhile Rhino becomes completely unworkable, is it possible to implement a version switcher in a 3.4.x update so at least the workflow is impeded minimally.


    I dont have to explain to you that the greatest advantage of enscape is that it works near seamlessly and 'within' the modelling software, your competitors twinmotion, lumion, are standalone, which it seems have lent them a significant advantage both in terms of rendering quality and interoperability it seems.


    Furthermore, not everyone will be upgrading to rhino 8, especially with the additional cost, no one is asking for enscape 4.0 to support rhino 7 either, simply that the latest 3.5.x be functional.

    It has been nearly 7 months of struggling with enscape, I hope you guys can understand the extreme frustration here.

    • Official Post


    1.(1.) The issues are unfixable in Rhino 7 on our end, unless McNeel fixes their part of the issue, which I think is unlikely as they are focusing development on Rhino 8.

    2. Very likely.

    3. I think the easiest way you could achieve this would be having different Windows users and a per-user installation.


    I understand your frustration but the Rhino 8 adoption is quickly rising and standstill won't really be an option in the long run.

  • Hi Christian, a customer of ours recently brought this thread to our attention. My understanding is that Steve Baer has been working with your team on all the Rhino 7/8 related issues. Can you tell me more about where we're at with this? We thought we'd handled all the issues reported by your team...


    Brian Gillespie

    Rhinoceros Development

    Robert McNeel & Associates

  • Hi Christian, a customer of ours recently brought this thread to our attention. My understanding is that Steve Baer has been working with your team on all the Rhino 7/8 related issues. Can you tell me more about where we're at with this? We thought we'd handled all the issues reported by your team...


    Brian Gillespie

    Rhinoceros Development

    Robert McNeel & Associates

    Christian Radowski - Well this just got more interesting.

  • 1.(1.) The issues are unfixable in Rhino 7 on our end, unless McNeel fixes their part of the issue, which I think is unlikely as they are focusing development on Rhino 8.

    I hope this is just a communication breakdown between Enscape and Rhino.

    Enscape is a great design tool and I do want to see it coming back with stability and features much like the pre Chaos adoption.