Revit Material detail documentation needed and suggestions

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  • It would be nice to have more information about the Revit material parameters Enscape interpretation.


    https://enscape3d.com/knowledg…evit-material-parameters/

    The documentation page could be a bit more illustrated.

    Also some part are missing, for instance the Reflectivity parameter : a high value on a slider on either of the Direct or Oblique parameter will increase the reflectivity but a texture will not control it...


    Two suggestions about materials :

    - since it's very nice the Enscape can update live the materials, it would be even better if the update doesn't need to click "OK" in the revit material browser/editor forcing reopen again, select the appearance again etc. I suggest instead to apply the update when the user clicks on "Apply".

    -To take in account the texture editor optional brightness reducer for the texture. that would give a good way of tweaking the strength of the texture (glossiness for example) without re-edit in photoshop.


    Best

  • Bart,

    Revit materials are much like any other PBR material system, in order to control aspects of the reflection, specular etc. you have to introduce those extra maps in the appropriate slots. For example, to get reflection lets say on a wood floor like image below, you need to have a setup something like setup windows below. There needs to be a reflection map in the glossiness slot, this is what controls the reflection.. There are videos on youtube about in intricates of revit materials worth watching.


    The clicking of "OK" in the material window is not an enscape thing, that is part of revit and has to be done for any material change, or edit. Doubt the enscape team can change that. Revit does not apply those changes to the element until the ok is pushed.

  • Bart,

    Revit materials are much like any other PBR material system, in order to control aspects of the reflection, specular etc. you have to introduce those extra maps in the appropriate slots. For example, to get reflection lets say on a wood floor like image below, you need to have a setup something like setup windows below. There needs to be a reflection map in the glossiness slot, this is what controls the reflection.. There are videos on youtube about in intricates of revit materials worth watching.


    The clicking of "OK" in the material window is not an enscape thing, that is part of revit and has to be done for any material change, or edit. Doubt the enscape team can change that. Revit does not apply those changes to the element until the ok is pushed.

    Thanks for this Scott, been using Revit for nearly 9 years and never knew you could use an image for reflection, thought this was only Max sorcery!


    Been having a play around with our material libraries now!

  • DanS, yea revit documentation isnt the best on materials. I learned this not to long ago myself. Once known you wont stop playing with enscape..lol its like max but realtime :) Your materials look great, good work on the floor!!

    I think the best thing at the moment is trying to push it to the limits and see what you can get out of it and thus far it's been brilliant!

  • I agree, Enscape is great for interpreting Revit materials. I am aware of the PBR materials.

    But could we have this information in the documentation ?

    I mean, it would be nice to know what is enscape taking from the reflectivity direct and oblique value.

    These are 2 values in revit (or two maps).

    What is enscape considering ? the oblique, the direct, an average, the minimum, the maximum ?

    or does it consider both of them ?

  • a suggestion here,

    it would be nice to take the brightness of the texture in account.

    This is when you click on the a texture in the appearance editor, it opens a texture editor and the brightness can decrease the "power" of the texture.

    If it was taken in account by enscape, it would be a convenient way to tweak a glossiness, reflectivity, or a bump effect.

  • Thanks for your suggestions about needed documentary. We will enhance our knowledgebase!

  • Thanks,


    But as a fast answer on this forum,can you tell

    what is enscape taking from the reflectivity direct and oblique value.

    These are 2 values in revit (or two maps).

    What is enscape considering ? the oblique, the direct, an average, the minimum, the maximum ?

    or does it consider both of them ?

    • Official Post

    what is enscape taking from the reflectivity direct and oblique value.

    These are 2 values in revit (or two maps).

    What is enscape considering ? the oblique, the direct, an average, the minimum, the maximum ?

    or does it consider both of them ?

    Right now the values are averaged.

  • Thank you Clemens,


    I did the snapshots to see the subtle difference. (see below)

    The Glossiness map has much more impact on the result, but it has to be made in photoshop.

    My workflow today is back and forth to photoshop, update the material in revit (many clicks every time) etc.

    Very repetitive.


    I wonder if that would be such a big deal for your developers to implement value of the the brightness of the texture.

    I mean the one inside the texture editor :



    Strangely enough, it already take in account the "invert image" checkbox, but not the "Brightness" value.

    To implement the brightness would be great because it would save a lot of time tweaking the glossiness of the material.

    Plus, it doesn't look a complicated thing to implement to me. ( but I'm not developer...)

    Anyway, I think it worth forward it to the developers.


    Best,







    • Official Post

    Hello Bart,


    thank you for this example. I understand the struggle, and I have forwarded your request for Enscape to support the Brightness Texture parameter to our developers.


    However, I'm unsure why you've added the screenshots regarding the Direct / Oblique values. Is there anything we can help you with them?

  • We've have a few visualists here that typically work with vray + max but have been experimenting with Enscape as an alternative for quicker shots.


    The two items mentioned in this post (brightness not being supported + reflectivity parameter not doing much) was a wishlist item for them as well.


    Support for the brightness parameter is fairly straightforward.


    The reflectivity parameter is a bit more subtle. As I understand it, they struggled with finetuning reflectivity as the reflectivity parameter does not seem to change much. For example: they would like to make an object with a sharp but faint reflection. The glossiness parameter would affect the level of glossiness of the material while the reflectivity would affect how reflective it is. So in theory, a material with reflection set to 0 should not reflect, even when glosiness is set to max. Let me know if this makes sense.

  • To answer you Kaj Burival ,

    the screenshot regarding direct/oblique values was to convince myself that it was actually working.

    Then I posted it for the community, someone will be happy to see it, and save the time of doing the same test.

    (but this btw should be in a proper documentation at some point, you can see how 3dsmax and chaos group are illustrating different parameter or combination of parameters in there docs. these docs are not that good if you ask me, but it's better than nothing. Now, I understand that you are focusing on development for the moment, and doing great job !)


    My general feeling is that the reflectivity parameter has a very small impact compared to the glossiness parameter, and right now it's not easy to fine tune the result with the reflectivity parameter. Right now one must go back and forth in photoshop to change the gloss map. From this you understand the importance of developing the support for the brightness parameter inside the texture editor.


    Pieter just above is right also with his example.

    It feels that this workflow Glossiness/sharpness vs Matte/reflectivity is the one followed by the enscape team, but it's difficult to handle in practice because of the different steps mentioned before (photoshop and Revits multiples clicks)


    I am conscious that Enscape is limited to Revit parameters and I'm not even dreaming of a color correction, histogram remapping or so,

    but the existing Brightness parameter looks like a simple multiplier factor, I mean not such a big deal to implement compared to many stuff in Enscape that ask a lot of development to look "simple" to the user. Maybe I'm wrong but I have this feeling the ratio Development/benefit is super high.

    All this text to make sure the developing team is conscious about the benefit they could give with one multiplier !


    Best

    • Official Post

    Hello Pieter and Bart for the insight. I understand your point and have forwarded your requests to our developers. Pieter, your example made perfect sense. Bart, we're currently working on an improved documentation of our Revit parameters. I'll let our developers know to have a look at the Reflectivity parameters, additionally to the texture brightness value we've discussed.

    • Official Post

    Bart, DanS , everybody feel free to have a look at our new Revit Material Knowledgebase Article. It's a little more illustrated, just as you asked for, Bart.

    Please let me know in case anything is missing.

  • thank you for this example. I understand the struggle, and I have forwarded your request for Enscape to support the Brightness Texture parameter to our developers.

    Hey Kaj


    Any updated on the support for the brightness texture parameter? I would save us a lot of photoshop time when we try to finetune the textures. Please consider support not only for the diffuse slot, but definitely also for glossiness map, bump map etc.

  • I agree with Pieter, this was exactly what I mean.Enscape is developping rapidly and I am very impressed.

    I guess you guys are busy with many things.

    But please take a look to this request. For the record, this was my message in June :