sketchup material updates

  • I've just "upgraded" my Enscape from version 1 to version 2. After testing it for a while, my general reaction to the new version is extremely negative. The overall look of the renders/outputs is VASTLY inferior compared to version 1. Let me be specific:


    1. The look of the model on-screen now has a messy, muddy and pixelated graininess that is utterly confounding compared to V1.

    2. The way reflections are rendered now seems duller and less distinct as compared to V1.

    3. Some of the lovely lighting subtleties especially using more reflective materials like chrome and aluminium and glass have been completely lost in version 2.


    I feel the upgrade has really lost ALL of the visual qualities that made V1 work so beautifully for us. The outputs as compared to V1 are utterly disappointing. The promise that V1 demonstrated is the reason my firm purchased our licences...We felt that Enscape was the first real-time rendering software that really captured subtle lighting effects as compared to your competitors. Without these effects, there's no point of using the software. This is a real loss for us. At this point, all of our architects that have evaluated V2 have reached the same conclusion. We've rolled back every installation to V1.


    Needless to say, I'm shocked at this apparent step backward. I think we need to see some improvement here to restore the products potential after our investment in your software.


    Please feel free to contact me to discuss this further. My email is aray@hayball.com.au

  • Hello Alex,


    I'm very sorry to hear you view the upgrade from 1.9 to 2.0 as a step back.

    1. The graininess you mentioned is due to our extended use of realistic light simulation. It's possible to see spots in darker areas, but they should blur to a nice even illumination once you stand still for a few seconds, don't they?

    2. Reflections should have improved vastly compared to previous versions. While we've had to "guess" reflections in previous versions, we're now trying to simulate them correctly as far as possible.

    3. Again, the lighting system in general was reworked, so of course details may differ. However, let me assure you that the new system is far more realistic and should display your scene better the way it would look like in real life.


    To help us understand your opinion, is there a chance you could send us some comparison images what exactly you don't like about the new version? This would help us tremendously to improve Enscape further, hopefully in the direction you expect it to go.


    Please let me know in case there's any questions!

  • Alex@hayball

    Strange i think version 2 is greatly improved over the previous version. Your settings are all correct and the same as the previous version? I notices some grain as well in really dark scenes but this can be overcome by dialing back the Noise reduction quality (strange i know). Something doesnt sound right as the new version is almost on par with the revit version.

  • Thanks for the comparison image. It looks however that you compared v2.0 with one of the recent previews that already included a lot of 2.0 additions. Are you sure that the V1 is a release version (like the one that is currently still in the SketchUp extension warehouse - theyll update it soon)?

  • This behaviour has been fixed for the stable Release version ;)

    This is something I also noticed in the Revit version (noise/graininess on the interior), but you could get rid of it mostly by turning the sharpness down to zero from its default value of 20. I'll have to download the latest release though to see if it's changed at all.

  • Thanks for the comparison image. It looks however that you compared v2.0 with one of the recent previews that already included a lot of 2.0 additions. Are you sure that the V1 is a release version (like the one that is currently still in the SketchUp extension warehouse - theyll update it soon)?

    all right, my first version is not the real 1 its enscape-1.9.6.1162, it's possible to download old version for testing ?

  • Kaj,


    Further to you post responding to my comments, I've attached some comparison images for your review:


    As an example, In the top image, you can see a view of a project rendered in V1 with an elevation in shadow (where the vertical fin elements are) that show a subtle reflective quality shown in the glass. In the bottom image you can see the same model, same view, time and settings rendered in V2 where the reflections on the same area of the facade are "blown out" i checked the normals, and even tried to adjust the materials to correct the problem, but to no avail. Also you can see reflective qualities of the parking structure to the right side are very different. Both images have been rendered in 4k resolution.




    Here is another example below, The top image is rendered in V1 with some nice reflections on the building facades and parking structure on the right.


    the image on the bottom shows the exact same model, scene, settings and resolution rendered in V2. You can see the subtle reflective qualities of the facades have been lost completely and the vertical fin facade is has been "blown out"...no matter how much tweaking i did with the exposure, materials, etc, I couldn't get to a similar effect as the V1 render.





    I think the change is pretty evident....is there anything we can do to remedy this defect? I would love to still use V2 with all of its other benefits, but as you know it always comes down the the quality of the renders...


    Thanks,


    Alex

  • Hi Alex,

    thank you for sharing these examples, they definitely give us a better understanding of your point.

    First of all, please, could you check in the [About] Enscape window what Enscape version exactly you've been using for each example?

    Next, there's a lot in the images that could be interesting for us to have a look at - for example, you've mentioned the behavior of the parking structure on the right on the first two pictures. I strongly assume there's a cutout texture applied to this material? If so, the only difference I see is that this cutout texture is being displayed sharper?

    It would also be interesting to have a look at the glass material you've been using for the main building. It's indeed strange that what was transparent before now seems much more reflective, but this could also be caused by the sun angle shining onto that building.


    Is there a chance you could share this model with us for further analysis? But please, most importantly we'd need to know the Enscape versions used. Thank you!

  • Kaj,


    I just sent you a dropbox link to the model for your examination directly.


    The version/install name of Enscape I used to create the V1 rendering is:




    The version/install name of Enscape I used to create the V2 rendering is: enscape-2.0.0.104-g0dfaae9.rbz (Apologies I don't have the install version screen grab because I've rolled the install back to V1.)


    I hope this helps...Please keep me posted with any info you may find to resolve the issue.


    Thanks

    Alex

  • Hello Alex,


    I'm sorry for not replying sooner!

    I have taken a look at your project. Let me explain the points in the order you've brought them up:


    First of all, the reflections in the main building. You've had the opacity for this material set to 91. While you're still able to see through it a little when the reflective surfaces are not in full sunlight, our now more realistic reflections are of course more dominant if the material is set to a low transparency.

    I have set the opacity of the material to 23, and I'd say now the transparency / reflections behave realistic for this value, and very much comparable to your result in 1.9:



    Also, the perforated metal on the right is simply being displayed sharper than in your 1.9 example. Isn't this what you'd want it to look like?


    The same with your second image. First of all, the vertical fin wall was "blown out" due to the high opacity value (causing strong reflections) and the choice of white ground texture.



    Regarding the reflections on the left side in this example - I understand that the first ones in your V1.9 example look a lot more flashy and eye catching, but they were wrong. Enscape, assuming the reflections rather than simulating, possibly proceeded like this:




    There's a bright area on the left, and Enscape mirrored it onto the geometry rather based on the camera position than on the actual geometry. The new reflections don't look as bright and contrasted, but they behave a lot more life like and consider the true form of the reflective surface.


    I understand that it's cumbersome to deal with such changes on an existing model, but the steps we take are definitely towards a more reliable and realistic visualization. If you set the opacity of your window material (Color M06 glass) to a lower value, you should have an Enscape scene that's very close to your V1.9 result, but with sharper textures and more life like reflections.


    Please let me know in case there's anything else you're not satisfied with!