Comment collection (Micha)

  • Hi,


    I will try to collect my comments in this thread:


    (1) focus target should be connected to the Rhino camera target

    (2) outline slider change from 0% to 1% cause to strong intensity jump

    (3) Stereo mode shouldn't compress image wide

    (4) Rhino IOR option support missed (at the moment are no metals possible)

    (5) Rendered display - could be great to get the Enscape output direct at the viewport

    (6) Bug: not all Horizon presets are working, f.ex. town/urban doesn't work

    (7) own Enscape materials are very missed (to get all features right working)

    (8) Bug: only one GPU of two used and this one is used for a short time only, noise isn't full solved

    (9) sun slider at low intensity difficult to adjust

    (10) AO radius and biased missed that cause artefacts dependent from the scene size

    (11) independent environments options for lighting/bachground/reflection/refraction missed

    (12) sky map intensity option missing (important for night HDRI to get the right relation to emissive materials)

    (13) burn vale for color mapping missed

    (14) camera vignetting option missed

    (15) Enscape output -> option "always on top" missing

    (16) Rhino global/document Enscape options missing (f.ex. for global light multiplier)

    (17) Are rendering animations based on Rhino tools (Bongo) supported? (very important)

    (18) mouse scroll wheel and RMB to sensitive for some scenes

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    (19) GI Cache: for static scene it could be great if the light solution would be cached and only new visible area added per calculation. If the cache could be saved and reused than it would be a big step forward.

    (20) Rhino material transparency slider support missing

    (21) Rhino material reflection (refl intensity) parameter support missing

    (22) Rotation option for loaded Skybox is slow working, I suppose so a change in RT could be possible

    (23) Export screenshot cause render restart

    (24) Option for Color bleeding adjust GI color bleeding missed (I'm sure my clients will need less color bleeding)

    (25) Stereo options at Standalone missing

    (26) Wish: Double click cause update of manual focus during camera is moved to the object (Standalone)

    (27) Bug: no GI at objects in reflections

    (28) Wish: light visibility options like invisible/visible, affect diffuse, affect reflection

    (29) Emissive light sources: no update after tex multiplier change (restart is needed)

    (30) Big problem: Enscape setup isn't saved to the current project file

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    (31) Bug: Rhino lights from disabled layers are shown (scene send per email) [fixed]

    (32) Wish: add "Emitter" as keyword for Emissive (Emitter is a material layer name of Vray and I used it often as material name)

    (33) Bug: Sun also at 0% brightness full visible at the sky, only no lighting and shadow

    (34) Wish: invisible walls to keep the lighting of an interior, but get a free view. Great could be if a keyword like "invis" could be added to a file name. This materials should be visible at reflections.

    (35) Little wish: used skybox texture should be shown and if the file choose UI is open, the current file name should be at the file name input field At the moment it's difficult to know which map is current used)

    (36) Bug: choppy reflections of the env map

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    (37) Keyword "Emissive" doesn't stable work everytime, please check. (see attachment of mapping error)

    (38) Bug: Mapping errors at some objects - see attachment

    (39) Shift correction missed (misse for single image renderings) [solved - Rhino two point perspective needs to be enabled]

    (40) Bug: Enscape options are always on top of any WINDOWS tab. Better would be all Enscape windows could keept within Rhino and there at top, for example like known from Vray for Rhino (also plugin windows can be minimized within the Rhino UI for temporary more screens space)

    (41) Wish: sky box mode and an option like "use Rhino sun" - good for neutral sky environments and free placing a sun

    (42) Bug: Moon is shown pixelated

    (43) Wish: back plate option (working with sky system and sky box) so that a simple standard photo can be used as background

    (44) Wish: Shadow catcher material (per keyword system) - good for composite work

    (45) Wish: fog for Skybox mode (a radius option could be useful)

    (46) Wish: water animation also if scene isn't manipulated (missed at Rhino output and standalone)

    (47) Wish: fog for water so that deep water looks darker than at flat areas

    (48) Bug: DOF at standalone missing

    (49) Bug (?): atmosphere fog and window glass looks strange at high fog values

    (50) min Focal point to far away for small product design, please allow to set below 0,1 m

    (51) camera rotation support missing - see screenshot

    (52) Keyword "frosted" doesn't show an effect - see post #12

    (53) Wish: Keyword like "front" and than I could see though the back side into a room. (Often needed feature for small interiors.)

    (54) Bug: bumpy look of glass

    (55) Wish: grass multiplier per keyword "grass3"

    (56) Wish: disable option for specific speed optimizations to get more quality like "keep all emissive objects", "keep all objects" "calculate GI in reflections"

    (57) Wish: turntable view manipulation for product design and simple arch models like known from 3D PDF

    (58) Bug: Sun intensity doesn't change sun fog effect (screenshot at post #15)

    (59) Bug: glass transparency color doesn't work for interiors

    (60) Bug: water shows repeating pattern, randomness missing

    (61) Wish: infinite ground plane per keyword

    (62) Wish: motion blur control for animation (I would like to get less blur)



    Thank you for the nice tool. Good luck for further development.


    -Micha

  • Info to (12) - I tried to setup an underground train interior. I got my emissive ceiling lights working, but environment light is much to bright, also if I use night HDRI. There seems to be an automatic exposure for the env map. Better would be to get a manual intensity control. In my case it helps to load a black image. Now, the emissive lighting works quite good. But I would like to use my special night env with motion blur effect.


    Other problem: calculation is to limited. Only one of my two GTX780 is used and calculation stops after a few seconds, noise is still there.

  • Thank you Micha. We will consider to improve your mentioned points.


    Just to answer a few of them:

    • 27: The missing "full" GI at reflections and alpha objects is a current performance limitation, but we improved the shading of solid glass as shown in your picture. That should integrate better to the surrounding in the next version.
    • 6: Enscape for Rhino is not officially released, you are using a preview version. Some features (like the horizon plate) are not fully implemented, please check the preview release notes: New preview version 2.0.2.832
    • 8: The missing multi GPU support for Enscape is not a bug, it's just not implemented. We do not expect a large performance gain from it, except for VR. Nevertheless, it might come in future versions.
    • 12: Sky HDRI: You are right, it's being normalized. We will make this optional, thanks.

    Thanks again, we will do our best to solve the mentioned issues.

  • Hi Thomas,


    one idea for the horizon plates - could be nice to get some "dark" environment presets, like late sunset and night. Nice for twilight exterior shots and most artificial lighted interiors.


    For the missing multi GPU support - for example I'm looking for a VR solution to show air plane and train interiors. Also my clients would like to get interior animations. Both can't be done with my current renderer Vray and for me for this two usages it would be worth to buy Enscape. And don't forget users from Octane and Maxwell (progressive unbiased renderer), both good for product shots, but bad for interiors. This users own computers with a lot of GPUs and are waiting for much more speed. Enscape could be the solution.


    Animations - a big wish for Rhino is that Enscape can be used like every other render engine for rendering animation per tool like Bongo. Rendering animations is a big problem everywhere, since it need hours or days. Enscape could be a game changer on this classic slow task. You have seen my product shot test? I rendered an animation per Octane based on approx. 120s per frame. Enscape needs 10s per frame (single GPU), if I could use both GPU, than a frame would be done in 5s. That would change so much .... . Please try it - Rhino animation support and multi GPU.

  • New comments added to the list.


    For Bug (31) I sent a scene per wetransfer. Attached an image that show one of the emissive problems - particular shown emissive materials in the distance.


    For (36) here some example images.

  • Thanks for the huge amount of feedback. I will try to answer a few of your points.

    4) At the moment you can give your materials a metal look by using keywords. See https://enscape3d.com/knowledgebase/sketchup/ for SketchUp. Rhino uses the some keywords, but since it has a slider for roughness, these keywords are ignored.


    5) I doubt that we will be doing it any time soon.


    15) So you wish for the Enscape renderer window to stay on top, just like the settings window at the moment?


    16) Already on our agenda, got your upvote.


    17) You can vote yourself for animations on our trello board: https://trello.com/b/xqBOhUIf/…nt-agenda-wwwenscape3dcom If we implement animations it's likely that we support some data input variants.


    20) Is the material "Transparency" slider not working for you? Try reloading Enscape (no need to close Enscape before, just click the Start button). The current preview has a bug, should be fixed with the next preview version.


    21) At the moment reflection intensity is mainly controlled by the material "Gloss finish" slider.


    22) Enscape does some lighting precalculations based on the rotation of the skybox. You don't have to use up/down, just enter an angle into the text box.


    23) Enscape renders screenshots in a higher quality than what you see on your screen, and possibly has to use a different resolution. So there is no way around it.


    25) Adjustable settings in the standalone are already on our agenda, got your upvote.


    26) Won't be possible until we have fully customizable input. That feature got your upvote.


    29) Might be a similar bug to 20)


    30) In what way is that different than 16) ?


    31) Just fixed it, will be available with the next preview.


    35) That's a no-brainer. Thanks for the suggestion.

  • 4) Great, interesting trick, works at some kind of materials. For example Grass doesn't work. Also please add IOR support, it's useful for more special effects.


    15) Yes. At the moment I need to scale the Rhino UI and use Rhino and Enscape side by side. For example the Vray frame buffer is always on top and can be minimized, if the screen space is temporary needed.


    17) Maybe we mean different things. At Rhino there is an Animation tool named Bongo. It allow me to create complex animations of mechanical design or/and camera movement. I need a way that Enscape render a frame, save the image and Bongo starts the rendering of the next frame. If Enscape would allow to do this, than it could extremely cut down the render time for an animation. Interior animations per Vray at 2K is so slow that I never had done it. Enscape is so much faster, so that only this functionality would make it worth to buy it. (I think the McNeel Rhino team could help you to get the connection done.) I'm not looking for an animation tool at Enscape, since Bongo is a ready solution for complex animations. All render plugins of Rhino allow to render Animations.


    20) OK, reload seems to help a little bit, but something is wrong. Attached a test rendering. The plane is bright white and if I add some transparency than it doesn't looks like a bright wide transparent plane, it looks like a black transparent plane. If I move the slider back and forward, reload the scene ... than I get some strange effects, but most not the expected one.


    21) It doesn't work. Try to setup a black plastic with a light blur. And now try to decrease the reflection intensity. I needed it at my product design shot last and I don't got what I was looking for. Reflection intensity support is very important for product design.


    22) If I type in an angle than it needs approx. 30 s until Rhino can be used again. So, it's difficult to finde adjust a background.


    30) Also without any option pages at the Rhino file all Enscape options could be saved to the Rhino file and loaded if the Rhino file is opened. Vray for Rhino do it this way, all options are in the Vray option UI only, the options are written/load to/from the 3dm file.


    Very curious I'm for working emitters. It's essential for a good render work. Render engines like Octane and Maxwell started with emitter light sources only in the past. Since I have seen working Enscape emitters at my train scenes and the result was very promising I hope a fix is soon possible. :) A next step could be to implement an intensity control.

    (Could we not do something crazy - in emissive keyword mode we use the IOR parameter as intensity control? I tried it, high "IOR" numbers are supported. In this mode internal the IOR could be set to 1.5, since we don't need emissive metal effects and 1.5 is good for rendering emissive TFT screens.)

  • 37) Emissive in Rhino is not set by keyword. Instead set an emissive color which is not black.

    38) Could reproduce the issue. Thanks for the sample project.

    39) How do you set the shift in Rhino? Or do you want to handle it purely on the Enscape side? Would only ever work in still images. No way anyone is walking around with lens shift.

    40) That's as it is designed at the moment. You can always close the settings window. If you open it again it will be at the some position.

    41) The sun position of Rhino is exported to Enscape. Don't understand your wish.

    46) Do you want to animate the water even if you don't move or look around in Enscape?

    48) DoF is explicitly not set in standalone. DoF for an image or a video is good. But when you can walk/fly freely in the model, there won't be one single DoF setting that's perfect, so it's not included. What do you need it for?

    50) Should be a no-brainer. We only have to make sure the slider has the right granularity.

    51) I see the parameter in Rhino. (I know it as camera roll.) Theoretically we could export that to Enscape, but you don't want to have a walkthrough with a rotated camera, do you?

  • (37) ok, but it doesn't work - please look at the screenshot, emissive color is set, but no effect

    (39) I found an easy solution: Enscape direct supports the Rhino 2-point-perspective feature, so, it's solved

    (40) ok, I understand. Please try to keep the Enscape windows within Rhino. For example I can't check the email without to close the options.

    (41) I found the problem: enable Rhino sun -> use a sky box -> enable "use bight point.." -> disable "use bright ..." -> Rhino sun isn't shown, only after editing the Rhino sun. So, some times it is needed to edit the Rhino sun to enable it. Maybe it can be fixed.

    (46) yes. It's strange looking, if I move around, the water is flowing and if I stand still, than the water too. It's magic, but not like expected. ;)

    (48) an auto focus DOF could be nice for example. I hope once a day we can jump through predefined views during a standalone presentation and here it could be great to get all effects, also DOF.

    (51) it's for product design single shot renderings and animations. It's needed for nice dynamic looking views. ;)

  • Micha if the Sun is your only light source, 0% is still amazingly bright 8o and the auto-exposure is doing the rest.

    Have you tried it with different hours of the day or with adding an interior light to see the actual difference?

  • Since Enscape can't handle big contrast because the basic color mapping only (seems to be linear?), I tried to lower the sun intensity to a value like 50%. And so I found that the light intensity at the fog doesn't follow.

    Auto exposure is off. Could be nice if issue 33 and 58 could be solved.

  • 38) I did a little research and found out that you have a texture mapping with very large offsets applied to the floor. This is most likely a precision problem on our side (some might call it an performance optimization feature). After changing the offsets to values nearer to zero, the floor looks fine. I don't know if we can deliver a quick fix.

  • 38) I did a little research and found out that you have a texture mapping with very large offsets applied to the floor.

    It's a part of a tram that is placed around coordinate 0,0,0, but the tram is quite long. So, the model is ok and can't be done better. (some times models are placed far away from 0,0,0 and can be moved.) Would it help to switch to unit centimeter that cause a scale? Are other unit supported or cause it problems with bias, fog ... ?