Proxy mutch more usefull

  • Hi Sirs

    I have suggestion to improve you realy Perfect render. It is importent for more flexible working and visual control.

    When we use Enscape proxy, it is linked component located in some folder. It can be lost if project well be send or move to another location. It is represented as wireframe box that is realy not informative, and we can not edit component untill open it in separate SU window! =(((

    If Enscape proxy would be linked to internal component (located «in model») then it could represent proxy for position information and size editing, and can not be lost. =))) I can change colors and shape of original tree component right in place and can see different instantly on ENSCAPE render. Nice!

    red gizmos represent arraed tree that can be changed right in place

  • Hi Sirs

    I have suggestion to improve you realy Perfect render. It is importent for more flexible working and visual control.

    When we use Enscape proxy, it is linked component located in some folder. It can be lost if project well be send or move to another location. It is represented as wireframe box that is realy not informative, and we can not edit component untill open it in separate SU window! =(((

    If Enscape proxy would be linked to internal component (located «in model») then it could represent proxy for position information and size editing, and can not be lost. =))) I can change colors and shape of original tree component right in place and can see different instantly on ENSCAPE render. Nice!

    red gizmos represent arraed tree that can be changed right in place

    Thanks a lot for your inquiry and feedback!


    We have an existing feature request on our agenda to allow for proxies / linked models being saved directly in the project itself. I'm adding your upvote to that to state the further demand for this implementation.

  • This is not a good solution for all! The idea of a proxy is to keep the main model light and easy to handle. Having hundreds of components stored right in the model itself might severely hamper performance on large projects! If it is implemented, it should be something that can be turned on or off.

    What COULD be usefull though, would be the ability to relocate all linked models into a new folder, and update the links to the new location. This way it would be MUCH easier to keep a whole project organized, and it would be easy to send all necessary files to others :-)

  • A....

    Is it joke?

    If somebody think that "easy to send all necessary files to others" when they are references-this post is not for them.

    1. I know clear (it is one of advantage of SU) internal component is best way do not miss some file content. Too many AUTOCAD and 3DS max files recived from different sources show messages about broken links.

    2. I work professional in SU 15 years - so I know what tolking about. Idea of a proxy is NOT to keep the main model light! (for this porpose software developer use references). Idea of PROXY is replace many instances to operate easy with BIG file. There is Skatter for SU. It is much more comfortable because use INTERNAL COMPONENT for scattering. I can change it instantly in scene, and original component will no chenge in EXTERNAL Library.

    3. Forget about "Having hundreds of components stored right in the model" - usaly it is 10-20 items

  • Here is 5 different components. When I edit mixborder I have to see mass of plants to decide what colore and shape is better. If one of plant is wrong I can just replace component in scene several time. And now Herbo, try to do it if it is loaded as ENSCAPE PROXY!

  • Abu - please consider that others have lots of experience too. Most of my experience in using SU is an exercise in trying to keep the files "light" and move as much heavy geometry out of the model. First by reducing polygons as much as possible, then with V-Ray proxies, and now that I'm using Enscape - as Enscape proxies. Sure, it may be a nice option for some to keep models in the original file, but I think your request for having better visual representation is the more salient point. Proscribing what way to achieve that to the Enscape team is not exactly helpful - especially when your workflow may not match a whole lot of other people's workflows.

  • Also - the simplest way for me to add representation into an Enscape proxy is by making a PNG billboard of the component and adding it into the "proxy component box". If Enscape had a way to automatically generate a billboard, that would be fantastic!

  • Quote

    Herbo: What COULD be usefull though, would be the ability to relocate all linked models into a new folder, and update the links to the new location. This way it would be MUCH easier to keep a whole project organized, and it would be easy to send all necessary files to others :-)

    I agree 100% ! This would be great for sharing and archiving . Ideally this feature might be part of a asset management system where the user would be able to see the location of textures or external references on the computer / network , identify broken links, re-link elements or archive the whole scene with all involved elements into one project folder.


    there is another tread about this here :


    Texture file locations


    best


    Andy

  • Abu - please consider that others have lots of experience too. Most of my experience in using SU is an exercise in trying to keep the files "light" and move as much heavy geometry out of the model. First by reducing polygons as much as possible, then with V-Ray proxies, and now that I'm using Enscape - as Enscape proxies. Sure, it may be a nice option for some to keep models in the original file, but I think your request for having better visual representation is the more salient point. Proscribing what way to achieve that to the Enscape team is not exactly helpful - especially when your workflow may not match a whole lot of other people's workflows.

    Hi Andibot! What is a goal to " to keep the files "light" and move as much heavy geometry out of the model." ? I like SU approach. If dont-why to use SU instead 3DS max e.t.c?, To store textures, component and other inside file is one of my lovely feature of SU.


    1 User can change material, component, style and do not store many variations in many different files. It is fun when 3DS max user store 5-10 examples of one texture in 5-10 colores, a? I store 1 main instance of texture/componentin external library and modifyed one in file. U have to store many similar instances of one cimponent/texture in different projects folders-is it GOOD? strange!


    2 To make some change in linced files especialy if in many files-is it sutable? And if U shoud co compare one part of whole model to another? CanU to suite color and size of one plant to another if U see only box?


    I tryed both methods (enscape and skatter) and shure skatter is much better


    What is youre argument?

  • Abu Have you ever worked with a sketchup file that has a lot of high resolution geometry in it and causes Sketchup to slow down? That's what I'm talking about. Like a 200-300MB file with tons of detail.

  • The notion that proxies are not there to keep the main model 'light' is incorrect. That is precisely why Chaos Group and one or two others first created the proxy system - to reduce polygon counts in your working model. Xref linking was another, far older method. Keeping the source models in the same scene was a recent development from companies like iToo Software and their Forest Pro/Railclone Pro plugins. Just like with Skatter, that was done so that it was EASY to select the source models in order to build your garden, lol. It was not done for any other reason. In fact, with iToo Software many folks simply turn those source trees and grass models in their scene to Vray proxies themselves. Leaving the source models there was never done for any sort of 'model management' reason.

    The notion of having the option to keep source models in the scene is fine, as is the idea of a much better proxy management system.

  • Abu Have you ever worked with a sketchup file that has a lot of high resolution geometry in it and causes Sketchup to slow down? That's what I'm talking about. Like a 200-300MB file with tons of detail.

    Hi

    I work with 100-600Mb files. There is more usable for me method to operate with - just hide objects or layers with havy content. It gives me to edit scene quick, without need to find/open/edit/update/reload content in separated files =) Try this

    And another one: U can`t compare one object to others, can`t copy colors/materials/ from one proxy to other etc. With my method it is easy.


    The notion that proxies are not there to keep the main model 'light' is incorrect. That is precisely why Chaos Group and one or two others first created the proxy system - to reduce polygon counts in your working model. Xref linking was another, far older method. Keeping the source models in the same scene was a recent development from companies like iToo Software and their Forest Pro/Railclone Pro plugins. Just like with Skatter, that was done so that it was EASY to select the source models in order to build your garden, lol. It was not done for any other reason. In fact, with iToo Software many folks simply turn those source trees and grass models in their scene to Vray proxies themselves. Leaving the source models there was never done for any sort of 'model management' reason.

    The notion of having the option to keep source models in the scene is fine, as is the idea of a much better proxy management system.

    Hi

    U see youreself- to keep main model 'light' is not a target =) Target is operate with havy file without freezing-yeah? See method above.


    I dont see reason to explain again advantage if proxy would be linked to internal component- shure the best way to have choise in enscape for both ( although external proxy useless for me). iToo, Skatter and other agree with me

  • I dont see reason to explain again advantage if proxy would be linked to internal component- shure the best way to have choise in enscape for both ( although external proxy useless for me). iToo, Skatter and other agree with me

    I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, I'm agreeing that the option to keep the proxy source within the master file would be a nice option to have.

    The fact remains, however, that Sketchup - at it's very heart - is a vector based drawing program with rasterisation used in shaded views, and it's developers have done little or nothing to improve the performance with data heavy scenes over the years. How do we know this? Revit uses nearly the same vector/raster system yet is capable of handling far more data presented on the screen at any given time than SketchUp. it's exactly the same with stand alone engines like Unreal, Lumion, and Twinmotion. These are all still firmly in the world of vector lines with raster based graphics, yet can outperform SketchUp in terms of moving around a huge scene by an order of magnitude that's off the charts. I shouldn't HAVE to turn off layers in SketchUp. I shouldn't HAVE to rely on heavy use of proxies. I'm FORCED to because SketchUp simply sucks at presenting large amounts of visual data on the screen.

  • small addition for several contracts persons: I see your request, and it is not to keep file small! File should be without freezing. If proxied component is internal, U could just delete it in the scene. It stores in internal component library, so U get no influence on vieport speed. But for me and others it is IMPORTANT to have proxy linked to internal links component. May be the best way is have context menu command to upload geometry to custom folder and use proxy. Another command to replace component in viewport with other component (box/billboard/any other) but keep original on render.


    PS. In other soft (but not in SU =((( there is display mode "box" for object displaying viewport that no influence rendering. So I am shure proxy is more required for my workflow.

  • not quite sure about negative comments as to storing too much in the model. Obviously, option to keep externally is good. But in terms of _speed_ - usually it is a question of visible geometry that slows the model down. Not the hidden stuff.