Provide material editor for Revit as well

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    The material editor for Sketchup is ideal and is a great platform to build upon later.


    For example, I imagine it would be a great place to provide additional options for finetuning the grass (length, density, ...).


    Can we have the same editor for Revit? Revit now has an API in place to manipulate the appearance of materials, so the Enscape material editor could keep everything in sync with the Revit model.


    That way we would still have a 100% in sync model, but we can interact with our materials in a way that is 100% finetuned for Enscape.

    Micha  Pieter Thanks for your feedback! The topic got your upvotes

    One way to think of it would be:


    Enscape provides a custom material editor and tries to keep as many values in sync with the native model (be it Revit, Rhino, Sketchup, ...) as possible. The more advanced the platform (and the API) the more the two could be kept in sync.


    This would allow quite a few benefits on the long term:


    • Easier switching between different programs (we switch between Revit, Sketchup and Rhino all the time)
    • Share Enscape material definitions between different platforms
    • All programs have the same material capabilities, regardless of limitations of software
    • Over time, additional options could be added that are not present in the platforms (round corners, normal maps, ...)
    • Easier documentation (because it would be the same across platforms
    • Users can still use the native material editors if they wanted (because it would be in sync)
    • Over time, the material editor could be a great UI to add additional features like scattering control for grass (and perhaps a custom scattering?).
    Quote from Jeff Gray

    Upvote on this one. We're gearing up to switch to Revit and would like to keep the same functionality when we do.

    Quote from Pieter

    Hey Enscape team, any updates on whether this is being considered for the next cycle?

    We'll definitely consider this, however to be quite frank I don't expect it to be a high priority right now, as the Revit material editor is absolutely capable to define almost all material parameters Enscape supports anyway. There're no limitations except for the vegetation flag in comparison to the Sketchup material editor.

    @

    Quote from Clemens Musterle

    We'll definitely consider this, however to be quite frank I don't expect it to be a high priority right now, as the Revit material editor is absolutely capable to define almost all material parameters Enscape supports anyway. There're no limitations except for the vegetation flag in comparison to the Sketchup material editor

    Is it possible to do something as small as tweaking the material in revit material browser and press applying will update the material in enscape instead having to press OK? we do some interior scenes and the accuracy of the materials is very crucial and tweaking it to look right takes quite some time because we have to keep closing and opening the window for the material to update in enscape

    tomson0412 Yeah there's currently no way of editing the material really fast in Revit.

    But your're able to do it so. We'll discuss this internally.

    @clemens Jonathan


    Thanks for your honesty :)


    You're right that the Revit material editor is capable to define all the necessary parameters. However, it's not user friendly (Tomson is giving a great example).


    I fear by not offering the same functionality on all platforms, some Enscape integrations are going to be superior to others. In the long run, we should be able to get the same results in Revit as others are doing in Revit. Almost all top projects in the gallery come from Sketchup. That's a testament to the quality of the Enscape integration, but also a testament that Revit and Rhino users will need some extra help to get to the same quality level.


    Part of the challenge is being able to get good quality entourage (3d people), vegetation and props (cushions, books,...) in Revit or Rhino (proxies like .fbx or .obj would help with this).


    But it's also about having easy access to the parameters that Enscape needs to produce a nice result. An enscape material editor would help with that.


    I realize that these are problems caused by Revit or Rhino (because their material editors suck). I'm hoping you guys will find a fix, just like you fixed the lack of a native sketchup material editor :)

    And we shouldn't forget - the current weak material UI of Revit and Rhino may work now, but if all platforms would use the same material editor the life could be much easier, new function could be quick added, for example options like enable outlines for specific objects or emitter intensity above 100 (Rhino problem).


    My impression is the current Enscape team is to small to get all the work done. And so, we are in a middle stage, not bad, but also not good. No question, the results are great, but we are acting in a very small range only, everywhere are tight limits. And so we have unfinished features and a weak integration. (For example that the Rhino camera target isn't connected to Enscape is below Render plugin standard. Or the batch render process ignores the lens length). I wished we had an own programmer for each plugin. (Maybe one of the previous Vray for Rhino developer could be hired.) And new plugins will follow.


    The last days I was working hard on a project and I had some much ideas what is missed, what is needed, what should be fixed. But I'm not sure it helps to post all this thoughts, since my impression is, the team could be still on the limit. From my limited users view it should be no question to port the Enscape material editor to all plugins, it should be the question when.


    Sorry, if it sound to harsh. The potential of Enscape is gigantic, but some times it's hard to use it under the pressure of tight deadlines.

    Micha: Our team is constantly growing to implement new additions at growing speed. We released our Rhino plugin at the end of November and I agree: Not everything that's useful has already been added. Sometimes it takes multiple reports for the same request to have it sorted with the right priority. Enscape for Rhino is only four months old - I'm confident that we'll be one big step closer to what our users envision Enscape to be in the next four months! Thanks for your feedbacks.

    Thomas Willberger Right, the Rhino plugin is quite young and a lot is done. What your users want to say here is, that the Revit and Rhino plugin need a host independent material editor too, since the basic materials are to limited for a professional use on the long run. We would stick on basic level.


    Will all plugins get the Enscape material editor? Since this is a question and not simple the next step this makes your users nervous. ;)

    To sum it up: For Revit, we do not plan a material editor, as Clemens already said - because the Revit material editor itself is quite capable.


    I see that the material editor could be useful for Rhino - we will search for a solution! Thank you all.

    I am 100% with Micha here, I see huge potential, but certain aspects are not pro level yet, at least for "classic" rendering tasks.

    For beginners or architects who use enscape to do a "casual" visualisation it is a very cool tool already, but on a professional level you are often in situations where you have to be able to archive certain qualities e.g. reflections and refraction.


    On the other hand enscape might be the only practical solution to easily do fully immersive VR content, at least for small and sometimes mid sized projects...


    Although I have not used it for commercial projects yet, I am very curious how it will develop within the next month...


    Best


    Andy

    Quote from Thomas Schander

    To sum it up: For Revit, we do not plan a material editor, as Clemens already said - because the Revit material editor itself is quite capable.


    I see that the material editor could be useful for Rhino - we will search for a solution! Thank you all.

    Hey Thomas,


    Let me rephrase my concern: we're noticing that almost all top gallery projects were done in Sketchup. I'm not saying it's not doable at all in Revit but it seems to be a lot harder.


    What do you guys think is the root cause for this? and do you see any opportunities where the enscape development team could remove some of the hurdles?


    It sounds like better material access is off the table. But perhaps we can still hope for fbx or obj proxies so we can have some more detailed content in our renders?

    Quote from Pieter

    It sounds like better material access is off the table. But perhaps we can still hope for fbx or obj proxies so we can have some more detailed content in our renders?

    I also think that the main bottleneck for Revit rendering quality it the content. We plan to address this within this year by adding some sort of proxy solution with (maybe) some shipped content.

    Quote from Thomas Schander

    I also think that the main bottleneck for Revit rendering quality it the content. We plan to address this within this year by adding some sort of proxy solution with (maybe) some shipped content.

    As Revit user, couldn't agree more. The speed of material setting is not as even close problem as the lack of high quality content, especially lack of fine looking interior accessories and furniture. Even when you import good furniture pieces from other software, loss of quality, tessellation and texture mapping problems are really notable and adding some solution for import of high quality textured proxy would be great step forward.