Posts by Pieter

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    The advantage of Duplicate as Generic allows materials, etc. to remain. However, this creates a duplicate material - the user still has to manually move the material assignments to the new generic material. :( On the other hand, if you change the appearance type to generic, all the objects with the material assigment are maintained - but you'll still have to remap textures.

    Hey Phil,

    Not sure I understand. Duplicating the appearance asset as generic does not create a new material, nor does it require the users to reassign material assignments.

    All it does is make a new material asset and assign it to the active material. It's true that the old appearance asset stays behind in the model, but that's also the case for the 'replace asset' workflow you described in post #12.

    Maybe I am missing something, but it seems like in order to edit a material in the Enscape material editor you need to reset its appearance to be generic, then you would need to find the image previously assigned to it and add it back to the now generic material.

    Why not use the 'duplicate as generic' feature in Revit? That can convert a non-generic appareance tab to a generic appearance tab, while keeping most maps and settings intact.

    So far I haven't found any steps to reproduce it, but I have had multiple users report it on different types of models. It's happening for users using both a geforce 3070 and 3080. Some users have reported that it happened for them after syncing to the Revit central, so until now I was assuming this was a Revit-only bug, but I thought andybot is using Sketchup, so might be unrelated to the specific platform after all.

    You might remember the meeting that we had a few weeks back. We explained why the functionality will only be in a very late Preview and that there will not be a lot time to make adjustments for the release besides bug fixing.

    I have not forgotten, but I was under NDA ;)

    I am confused about this:

    So for the release we will have more assets with adjustable colors and materials. We are currently also planning to ship new (or reworked) assets every month for the rest of the year.

    We decided against doing detailed adjustments in the materials that are used in assets for now. So no, you will not be able to change maps individually.

    Does this mean we will or will not be able to change a wood to a marble? You say 'will have more assets with adjustable colors AND materials', but from your second paragraph, I understand it's really only color overrides that we will be able to do?

    If so, this custom asset functionality is almost completely useless for our use case. The only type of assets I have found myself wanting to tweak just the colors of are the vehicles. For every other types of assets where I need to modify the materials, it almost always involves swapping texture maps. Swap fabric to leather. Swap marble to wood. Swap oak to pine. Etc.

    For me, the 'asset types' is the least interesting feature in terms of asset customization because it doesn't really add anything that wasn't possible before. Rather then having asset types, these assets could have also been published as separate assets. Granted, it would make the library a bit more crowded, but that's it. The asset modifications (like material overrides) is where the real value is IMHO.

    Given this, the only 3.5 feature that am excited about is the hidden edges for assets in Revit, which in all honesty is almost entirely a Revit feature (plugins only needed to change a few lines of code to take advantage of this new Revit feature). I know because I made a plugin that does something similar to the Enscape assets, and it only took me two lines of code to turn my triangulated assets into non-triangulated assets.

    Brutally honest: if 3.5 didn't have those two lines of code for hidden triangulation of assets, I don't think I would consider upgrading. I realize reflections have improved significantly, but that's only relevant for a very small percentage of our shots (I guess we don't render mirrors often).

    PS: I submitted a bug report for preview 18 where some of my assets are rendering as black in the custom asset editor, which makes it impossible to adjust the materials. The same assets work fine in 3.4.4. I do hope this will get fixed before the release. Otherwise there's no way we can use this new version.

    Materials use a lot of memory too. Another method to temporarily ignore materials (without breaking links to the materials) is to overwrite the Proposed Phase with a solid color. Revit will ignore the real Appearance material and the model will appear solid. Now start Enscape.

    I tested two views, one with all materials overridden and one with regular materials, but the startup times are the same (the one with materials even loaded slightly faster).

    Check the materials in your custom material folder. What's the total folder size and are there any large textures (4k) that represent a small sample size? I once found myself troubleshooting a customers project with a lid and texture that would've been about 2" x 2" in the real world, and it was a 4K texture assigned throughout the project. Slowed everything down.

    I think we can safely rule out textures being the issue here. Originally we had 1gb of textures loaded into my test model but removing all of them barely made a dent in the project performance or stability.

    I appreciate the suggestions of users trying to rule out user error. I'm not ruling it out completely, but we have been working with Enscape for +5 years now and these problems have only appeared since version 3.4. Could still be user error, but I think we should also be open to the possibility of an issue with the newer versions of Enscape with specific setups, for example something specific to large Revit BIM360 projects.

    What would be most helpful for me now is other users' sharing their statistics: When working on large Revit workshared models (+1gb with loaded links), what has your experience been with 3.4 and the preview versions? And how does it compare to earlier versions (3.3 and even going back to 2.9)?

    I am using 3.5 preview 17 in REVIT 2024 .... and it is not showing yet the 'hidden triangulation edges on Enscape assets'

    The hidden triangulation is working for me with Revit 2024 and Enscape preview 17. But it only works for newly loaded assets in projects. It will not work for example when you upgrade a project that has assets in them that were placed with Enscape 3.4. That's not an Enscape limitation but a Revit one though.

    What Phil said, +, I know this is not always a fair question, but is your hardware the best your can afford, and or TOTL? Also, I do not model 12 story structures, but I do model very heavy models (15k s.f. highly detailed custom content rez with fully developed topographical sites in model (5 acre), and all elevational hardscape/landscape attached), and even when mine are drunk with a couple of hundred plants/trees, all on/rendering , my load times are never more than a minute or so. I have to believe part of that is now that I'm playing in the textured real-time 3d environ, I did decide to go nuts on the hardware, and it has made such a huge difference.

    We are using Razer laptops. Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10875H CPU @ 2.30GHz 2.30 GHz with 64gb of ram and an rtx3070. I'm not sure if that qualifies as 'top of the line', but I think it's reasonable.

    It's interesting to hear that you are experiencing a different startup time. In what program are you working? I'm wondering if it could be that Enscape just got a lot slower in some programs but not in others. Or with specific setups, for example a Revit model with links in it. It would be great if others could also share the startup times they are experiencing.

    Thanks for the tip on HWInfo. I used a similar tool years ago but haven't tested it on Enscape. I will keep an eye on the temperatures.

    On the other hand, I think are laptops are reasonably powered and Enscape is a consumer tool for the broad market, so I think if our computers turn out to be underpowered, there's a good argument to be made that Enscape needs to do more optimizing so it runs better on reasonably spec'd hardware. I think that's a big part of our frustration: similarly sized and detailed models, used to run a LOT faster and smoother in Enscape, with fewer crashes, just a few years ago. Yes I appreciate more features and render quality, but not at the expense of crashes or rapidly escalating loading times.

    What's the file size (all combined models) and how many models? Try turning off the links and starting Enscape. Let's rule out something weird in one of the files.

    660mb + about 1gb in linked files. So 1.7gb in total. 800Mb of these links are optional and usually not loaded into Enscape. I have made a detached model to experiment and removed all unnecessary links, so the model is down to 660mb+200mb in links. But the loading times are still the same and seem to vary between 7min at the fastest and 16min at the slowest (loading the exact same view with the same worksets loaded).

    - Textures take up a lot of memory. Dropbox is fine. Your materials are stored on a locally sync'd folder right?

    I thought it might be related with that, but I broke all texture paths intentionally so no textures are loaded anymore, and the loading times seem to be the same.

    - Create a new default 3d View. Turn off everything that's not geometry (including linked files): Scope Boxes, Levels, 2D CAD files, etc. Start Enscape. How long does it take to open?

    None of this seems to be make a difference unfortunately.

    - The red layover on the selected assets makes it hard to accurately select the colors. I find myself having to select a color, exit, evaluate, go back in and readjust, etc. Maybe the red layover goes away in edit material mode in favor of just an outline?

    - I think the 1/x label in the topright corner of the thumbnails in the standalone library are fairly distractive. I would not show them as the small thumbnails of the subtypes are clear enough. But if you really want to show them, I would at least hide them for all the assets that have no subtypes (1/1).

    - I love that the "match properties" tool in Revit also copies the material overrides on the assets. I believe that's because it matches custom instance parameters by default, and you are using an instance parameter to store the asset override info.

    - I like that we have access to all colors on the color wheel, and not just a predefined selection of colors.

    I had to run the installer for preview 17 twice, the first time it failed but I unfortunately did not a grab a screenshot of the error. I previously had Enscape 3.4.4 installed on windows 10.

    My feedback after a first test:

    - For already placed assets, I find it not discoverable how to change the material or swap the subtype. I think it would be far more intuitive that when you only have a single type, it would immediately switch to edit mode. To be honest, I can't see the benefit of the 'edit selection' panel. Is the idea what we will select all assets in an entire area and then click on each one to tweak them? Seems like an odd workflow. I think I would either select a single asset, or a bunch of the same type (rightclick -> select all of type). And perhaps the "selection panel" can only be shown once you have assets of multiple different types selected?

    - I like that 'select all assets of this type' only applies to the assets currently loaded in Enscape. I was concerned it was going to affect assets in other design options/unloaded parts of the model.

    - I don't like that when you have more than one element selected, the selection is reset if we switch from the 'edit selection' panel to the move command for example. Presumably because move/rotate/scale does not support multiple selection?

    - In the "edit selection" panel, there does not seem to be a way to way to see which asset has subtypes. But once you are in the 'edit asset' panel that is very clear. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if you 'edit selection' panel was removed :)

    - Very few assets right now seem to support material adjustments. Instead, the focus seems to have been on asset subtypes. I actually have way more usecases for material modifications on standard assets than I have a need for the subtypes.

    - Are there any assets that have the option to change more than just the color? For example change stone to wood map etc? Would love to test that.

    - Often I will want to palce an asset and immediately change its material. Right now the workflow for that is awkward: we first need to place it, 'apply changes', select it, click on the selection, and only then we can change the material. It would be nice that with changeable material assets, it immediately jumps to edit mode after placing.

    - In both the standalone library and the library inside enscape, the popup only works after clicking on the thumbnail. I liked the previous behavior better.

    - In the library inside the enscape render window, we can see an icon for 'material can be modified' after clicking on the thumbnail, but in the standalone library that icon is missing.

    - I like that when we copy an asset with modified material, the modification is maintained. What isn't great is that there's no way to see whether any materials have been overridden on the 'edit selection' panel. On the 'edit asset' panel it's very clear, even with a nice implementation when you have assets of the same type selected but with different material overrides. Again, I think the 'edit selection' panel is making things harder than it needs to be. Would be better if it jumped immediately to 'edit asset' panel until you select multiple different types of assets.

    We currently have a fairly large model of an office tower of 12 floors. The model takes on average 12min to start up. Is that expected, or is that slow enough that I should file it as a bug report?

    The model also crashes often, but we always get stuck in support tickets with infinite checklist requests. Things like:

    - "try using the latest test build"

    - "I see you are using the latest test build, try using the official build"

    - "update to latest graphics driver"

    - "try rolling back the graphics driver"

    - "oh this is a bim360 model, enscape does not officially support those, we only support single user models on the local drive" (lol, are you serious?!)

    - "oh the textures are all stored on dropbox, try storing them on the local drive and see if that makes a difference" (does support realize how much time this takes to 'just give it a go to see if that makes a difference')

    The support people are clearly going off of an unrealistic long and demanding checklist, which in turn results to every one of our support requests to be closed because sooner or later, they find you don't provide enough information.

    So I'm going to ask this to the fellow Revit users: what's your experience been with loading times on Enscape 3.4 models? What's considered normal these days?

    Thanks Paul Russam but rolling back to 3.3 is drastic for us. We would lose our asset categories, and in fact I'm not even sure whether our new (asset categories enabled) assets would work with the old 3.3 version. We'd also lose the ability to edit existing views. We're also working with Revit so maybe our issues are specific to that platform (I wouldn't be surprised as I'm seeing Enscape doing API syncs with Revit at very weird times, which might be contributing to our issues.

    Demian Gutberlet Thanks. I do need to discuss this internally. We are using the 3.5 preview 1 version because that was the first version that supports hidden edges for enscape assets. It's going to suck having to go back to 3.4.4 but if that's what it takes to get it more stable I would do it in a heartbeat. My biggest issue is that there's zero guarantee that it would in fact fix the issue. But it seems to be prerequisite to work with Enscape support, as not a single of our crash reports have gotten further than 'install latest drivers and enscape version'. I also don't understand why Enscape is working one day, and the next (using the same enscape version and driver version) enscape stops working... Are you guys pushing updates silently perhaps?

    I'm afraid our experience has been the same:

    1) updating the drivers ferociously does not seem to be helping

    2) we are experiencing (1) enscape never starting. If it does eventually start, it takes 10min or so to start. And even if you do successfully launch it, it crashes every other minute.

    One of our project managers reached out to me that they haven't been able to use enscape in 3 weeks because no one in the team (7 people!) is able to get it to run long enough to get any productive work done.

    I am very very worried about how things have evolved the last year. It seems we've been going backwards instead of forward. For the first time in 6 years, we are looking seriously as the competitors to see if there's anything better out there. That's how bad it's gotten.

    I'm available for a conversation with anyone on the developer team who wants to make time for a face to face.

    Each custom asset has two components, an 'asset package' (.assetpkg) and the 'generated asset' itself, which consists of a folder that holds a number of subfolders and files.

    The asset packages will be saved in your 'asset projects' folder and the generated assets in the 'assets' folder. The folders are customizable so you need to check your settings to find out where they are being saved on your machine.

    If you want to share the asset you have 3 options:

    1) share only the 'generated asset' (for example by making a zip file of the folder holding all the generated files). This will allow the user to paste that folder into their 'assets' folder and it will appear in their library, but they will not have an option to customize it (change the category, tweak the materials, modify the name...)

    2) share the 'asset project'. Now the user will have the option to tweak the asset, but it will not immediately appear in their asset library. They will first need to open the asset project in the asset editor, and generate the asset from the project.

    3) share both the 'generated asset' and the 'asset project'. Here the user gets a customizable asset but can immediately start using it without having to generate the asset first. The downside here is that you have to make sure the user drops both the 'generated asset' and the 'asset project' in the correct folders.

    Demian Gutberlet When are the previews going to include the asset color variation and lighting addition? I saw 3.5 is supposed to come out next month, yet arguably the two most important features of this update have yet to be tested.

    I was wondering that myself as well. I fear another "oh...good feedback but it's too late now to do anything about it" might be coming our way :|

    With other software packages I follow, the big changes are made early in the release cycle, so there's enough time for testing, bug fixing and fine tuning. It seems with Enscape it's usually the other way around.

    Although it I wish the Enscape material editor would offer us the same button ... :) Kinda annoying to search for a material in the enscape material editor, realizing it's not there, open the revit material editor, search for it again, convert to generic, open the enscape material editor and search for it...again....